The Interview: Personal branding “expert” Dan Schawbel
According to DanSchawbel.com, Dan Schawebel is “the leading personal branding expert for Gen-Y.” He is the author of the bestselling career book, Me 2.0: Build a Powerful Brand to Achieve Career Success (Kaplan, April 2009). Me 2.0 made the Amazon top 100 business book bestsellers’ list when it came out and was the #1 job hunting book. It also made the New York Times summer reading list for job seekers and was one of three recommended social networking books by Shape Magazine.
TNGG caught up with Dan last week.
How’d you get your start in personal branding?
I started when I read The Brand Called You article in Fast Company on March 14th, 2007. The article reflected what I had considered to be self-marketing. I had been marketing myself throughout college, with eight internships, seven leadership positions in organizations, and good grades, as well as my own web development company.
I created my own personal branding toolkit, consisting of a custom resume, cover letter and references document, in addition to a CD portfolio of work, a business card and a website. Between March 14th and August 1st of 2007, I started the Personal Branding Blog, the Personal Brand Awards, Personal Branding TV, Personal Branding Magazine and also wrote articles for magazines and guest blog posts. On August 1st, Fast Company, the same magazine that highlighted personal branding back in 1997 (now 10 years in the future) profiled me and my work. Once that happened, I truly understood the power and potential for the concept.
Well you’re big into it now. Tell us why you think that matters?
It matters for a number of reasons. The first is the need to stand out from the competition; the global economy makes everyone a possible competitor. In this economy, there is even more pressure on the individual to differentiate him or herself from the crowd. The second is the explosion of social technologies that has made it obvious, tangible and affordable for an individual to become a brand. Britney Spears, Comcast and you can all have a profile on social networks and no brand has more privileges than the next.
What is your brand? Dan Schawbel stands for what?
My personal brand statement is “personal branding expert for Gen-y.” It is the niche that I had claimed back in 2007 and I’m still positioned this way even today. I stand for hard work, passion, honesty and youth. Common brand attributes that come up when my brand is said or written are: prolific, ambitious, energetic, resourceful and creative.
Should everyone try and create his/her personal brand?
In most cases, you brand has already been created for you. Your friends, family and co-workers label you and each first impression you have determines your fate with that individual. It’s not about creating a brand anymore but rather about how to manage it so it works for you. Since perception is greater than reality and the online world is the cheapest and most effective way to distribute your brand, you must have online assets that can project the brand you want others to see.
So you definitely think people have a personal brand whether they know it or not?
Yes, everyone has a brand, not just celebrities that command a massive amount of attention. If you’re online then you’re a public figure and after a while, you will command at least a micro amount of attention in your own niche.
Seems to be a trend that people are trying to be brands and brands are trying to be more like people. What can brands and marketers learn from what you’re doing as an individual?
That is the trend because today every brand has to come down to an individual level in order to interact and engage with an audience/community. Corporate and product branding strategies apply to the individual, which is another reason why personal branding took off the past few years. Brands and marketers can learn how to advertise, promote, build relationships and create brand loyalty through these new channels. Also, brands can leverage their internal talent to spread corporate messages for free and empower their employees to communicate with corporate stakeholders in a positive way.
I suppose critics would argue that Dan is all about Dan. Overly self-promotional. How do you answer that?
Yes, personal branding and self-promotion are interrelated. If you decide not to self-promote, then people won’t know what value you can contribute or what products or services you’re selling, so that’s an issue. It’s all about striking balance between self-promotion and value contribution. On the web, the more value you give, the more your audience will be OK with self-promotion. At the end of the day, if you are all about your brand and no one else, then you don’t have a business because a business involves a transaction between you and a buyer (whether you’re a job seeker, consultant, etc). If I am only about me, then people will shrug me off because they wouldn’t want the noise.
If you Google yourself, how many results do you deliver?
On a good day I get about 900,000 results for my name in Google.
Wow, well that’s high, but if someone Googles you they already know who you are.
What keyword searches deliver Dan on the first page of organic search?
The one’s that I’ve owned for a while are “personal branding,” “personal branding expert,” “branding expert,” and “personal brand.” These are the one’s I had wanted to own back in 2007, too.
Do you think that’s simply from your social media activity? Or is it strategic use of SEO tactics and techniques?
I think it has to do with a few things. The first is content production over a long period of time, consistently and with the same keywords in almost every blog post. The second is the amount of work I did promoting my online assets, such as guest blog posts, interviews and linking between each asset. So, I would say SEO, plus hard work, consistency, a lot of marketing and the support of my network.
You’ve written a book despite having a blog. Why is it that everyone in the social media space seems so compelled to get published offline, in a book? Is it that publishers are trying to get in on the buzz of social? Or do you still feel you need the offline accomplishment to legitimize you?
A blog hasn’t been completely accepted by society. The word “magazine” and “book” are still more powerful than “blog.” I know this because it’s far easier for me to get advertisers on my magazine than the blog, even though the blog has a lot more traffic. Also, the book is published by Kaplan which is a reputable publisher and respected by people. Books, such as Me 2.0, are more legitimate, linear and credible than blogs. If you have a book, it will be easier to get new business and press mentions. Also, another reason to publish a book is to reach the offline audience. In 10 years, a successful blog may be enough credibility.
Let’s say you’re a 40 year old in the midst of your career but still ambitious. What can Dan Schawbel do for you?
Personal branding consulting customized to what you are looking for. More 40-year-olds read my material than millennials because they want insight into the younger generation’s thinking. I like to help people realize their personal brands and project them to their target audience online. That’s my true strength.
Do you refer to yourself in the first person?
Yes, in most cases.
Well, Dan, thanks for the interview.
Thank you.
16 Responses
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[...] magazine or the Financial Times, for a feature on Mashable. Dan Schwabel said something similar in an interview with TTNG recently: TNGG: You’ve written a book despite having a blog. Why is it that everyone in [...]
Really?
I mean really?
REALLY?
I guaranfuckingtee you that anyone in his 20s to early 30s would take one look at this guy and proclaim, “Douchnozzle.” Or… “fucktard.”
Dan the Man says it himself: “more 40 year olds read my material than millenials [SIC].” You know why that is? Because if you’re over 40, as I am, you fear losing touch with that feeling of being young and full of mindless optimism. You also take a keener interest in the self-help section at the bookstore.
Man, people like Dan just get under my skin. As a creative in adland, I saw his ilk everywhere. They were the people who would proclaim CEOs to be fools, who would always be accusing others of not getting it, they were, to borrow a phrase, “the smartest guys in the room.” Well, if that last bit is true, then smarts and judgement are mutually exclusive, or maybe even inversely proportional.
A bit of advice to all you up and comers out there (not that you need it!): this guy Dan is dangerous to you, he is no different from a cult leader, and if that’s what you want, your own Koresh, go for it, but if you want to think for yourself, you need to listen to everybody BUT Dan.
Jeff
http://www.cerebellumblues.com
I’m going to disagree with you, Jeff. What Dan has done with his own personal brand is evidence to the power of the concept. Not many people can Google the main keywords of their blog and have their name as the first result. Dan seems to be doing very well for himself. I think Gen Y would be wise to listen to him: define your niche, find the value in it to others, and promote the living heck out of it. I think the thing my generation struggles with the most is choosing just one niche. We end up with fragmented identities and we like it that way, but it doesn’t help us when we look for jobs.
Thanks Christine for your nice comment.
Jeff, thanks for your comment, but I think it’s way out of line and actually makes you look bad. If you care about your brand, you won’t say comment saying “Douchnozzle.” Or… “fucktard.” It doesn’t come off the right way to the reader. There are better ways to be critical Jeff.
And you’re condescending! This just keeps getting better… or worse?
Sorry Jeff, I don’t agree. Yes, there’re more 40-year-olds reading his stuff, but I would guess its because he has found something that transcends generations. Dan has done things everyone wants to have done, maybe not branding, but somehow reach that success level. I think its important to brand yourself. I think of it like this: if I don’t brand me, someone else will and I can only guess that it isn’t going to be what I want. Look at Verizon, they’ve branded AT&T with their ads. Or Mac, they’ve defined what being and using a PC says about you. I think its time all of us learned to do it. I’m in the process of branding myself for the job market, and if you can successfully brand yourself, you can brand anything. Looking at yourself and evaluating your strengths and weaknesses is horrifyingly difficult for a lot of people. Dan, once I finish finals this week, I’ll buy your book. I’m making my portfolio a demonstration of who I am as a brand, isn’t that what all creatives really do?
I am sure that Dan’s advice on self-promotion is sound; his success demonstrates that. In a purely semantic sense, though, I’ve always been uncomfortable with applying the word “brand” to human beings. It seems little more than a buzzword for “reputation,” and to me it has the unsettling connotation of being shrinkwrapped and sold. It’s similar to the ghoulish replacement of “personnel” departments with “human resources.”
On a substantive level “personal branding” makes a lot of practical sense. I just wish we used another word for it.
@Mike, when I was in College I used to call it self-marketing…Tom Peter’s article changed that because it made more sense to me.
@Jenna, thanks for your Verizon example
Dan I’ve followed you on twitter and read your blog for a while–I’ve even got to see you speak at NEU once. I think you make a lot of good points, but I’m not sure about using a “branding framework” to promote oneself. I couldn’t agree more with your tactics concerning getting on social media and making your online presence work for you. But isn’t this all really about engagement and showing people that you’re multi-dimensional? I feel like brands are memorable but flat, and a very few have real personality–and that’s what I’m looking to sell. I use my blog to add depth to my resume not to brand myself. Again, I like much of what you have to say, but on the other hand I don’t want to be a brand. I feel like there is a happy medium.
I think Dan’s points are great. As a college senior (of Dan’s alma mater actually!) personal branding is a large component of the job search and therefore his points are pretty relevant to my life at this point. Dan was a guest speaker here this year and I have only heard positive feedback.
@Jason, it’s up to you how much personal information you want to share. I’ve chosen not to show as much because it becomes my permanent record online.
@Kim, thanks.
The one thing I wish you touched on more often Dan, is the concept of following up your “personal brand” with performance. I’m no stranger to the values of personal branding, but when you put all the focus on the “branding” part and not the “performance” part, you’re setting students and young professionals up for trouble.
Personal branding shouldn’t be used to make you look as valuable as possible without actually being able to support that brand by providing that value. If you build a brand that is beyond your ability to support, you’re not just lying, you’re setting yourself up for failure.
David Spinks
Community Manager, Scribnia.com
@DavidSpinks
I think Jeff Shattuck has a point.
Although, I wouldn’t call Dan a Douchnozzle. Only because I’ve never meet Dan. Dan, by your interview, you just seem tactical. You figured out how to orient yourself as best as possible to the job market. Not only that, but your published. That’s an incredible feet for such a young looking guy.
However, I think personal branding is nonsense. It’s just some buzz words like web 2.0 and “New Media”. Hate to break it to all you social media guru’s out there, but communicating with a relevant audience ain’t new, only the medium is. Anyone with determination and time on their hands can do it. It doesn’t take much to figure out how google analytics and SEO works, then capitalizing on it. Hell, I never heard of SEO before I went to my 4th internship…and then I learned it in one day. There seems to be a lack of creativity to personal branding. All you need to do is think is, “what am i good at?” then the rest is obvious.
Secondly, Personal branding isn’t what marketing and advertising is about. MarComm is about retaining a community and positioning yourself accordingly. To put it in Layman’s terms, You start with people and end with self. Personal branding is the exact opposite of that process. Evidently, that’s why you see so much shitty advertising now a days, because too many brands are so wrapped up within themselves they don’t realize consumers subordinate emotions or needs.
Thirdly, The whole reason for Jeff to call him douchy is pretty obvious. Personal branding seems selfish. It really isn’t that hard to get a job. You just need to be good at a job…that’s really all there is to it. Also, most of the kids at my college who practice “personal branding” are in fact total competitive douche bags. Not saying that Dan is, just saying that’s what his field of study attracts.
So, in summation if you want to brand yourself, brand yourself as being friendly, a nice person, a fun guy to work with, someone with morals and values. Because honestly, people dont give a shit how many internships you have or if you can spell “Efective Communcation”, just be personable…and people will like you. You don’t need a AdAge article or a NewsWeek Clipping to have that realization.
PS:@Jenna: Verizon did not Brand AT&T with their Advertisements. What branding is, is loosely defined. My favorite quote about branding in advertisements is from Bill Bernbach, “It is a subtle-ever changing art, defying formularization, flowering on freshness and withering on imitation”
Verizon found a competitive advantage and portrayed it…poorly. They fell for what “Positioning: The Battle for the Minds” calls ‘The Me Too Trap’. Plainly, Verizon thought, “AT&T has app’s…fuck it, we have maps!”
That deludes the brand image. What do you think of when you think of Verizon? Because all I still think is AT&T’s competitor. And you all know the addage, “If your not first, your last”.
Ari, a much more response to Dan than mine.
Dan, you’re right, I shouldn’t have called you names. But the way I think about you remains the same: a bit of a hustler.
To my mind, the best way to create a personal brand, is to do well by doing good. Don’t be the guy who complains all the time, be the guy that helps. Don’t walk by trash on the street and always leave it, pick it up every now and then. If someone else’s idea is better than yours, build on it, don’t try to tear it apart. Don’t cheat, steal and lie. Be nice to people and always assume positive intent. No SEO required!
Jeff